tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post8189452237644873380..comments2024-03-28T00:13:03.960-07:00Comments on Babasiga: The Fijian word KalougataPeceli and Wendy's Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-10316227947154651402024-01-31T01:32:02.595-08:002024-01-31T01:32:02.595-08:00I totally disagree with you on the matter that the...I totally disagree with you on the matter that the word kalougata is the god name as you and James have stated. We need to look at the how the term kalougata is used. To say that kalougata is the name of god is totally out of order. If we say that kalougata is the name of god, then how do we explain the fijian blessings as being said, vakalougatataki iko tiko na kalou. How do we interpret the word kalougata? Its not a noun but a verb. It indicates what will transpire.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-59817590578544851762015-06-01T05:03:33.041-07:002015-06-01T05:03:33.041-07:00Gata does not mean snake or sharp but effective, w...Gata does not mean snake or sharp but effective, when used in the sense the word Kalougata uses it forAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-66660533667267361992011-12-14T09:47:57.383-08:002011-12-14T09:47:57.383-08:00I see the debate continues after quite some time f...I see the debate continues after quite some time from the original blog. Discussion will be revived when the original John Hunt New Testament is published on the occasion of the bi-centennial of John Hunt's birth in June 2102.<br />I appreciate all contributions on this matter; people hold beliefs and understandings precious to them and that must be valued. As with the English Bible, so Fijian will gradually accumulate a range of translations, including the NFT. I am suprised however by the great differences between all the Fijian translations to this point in time, based on the original languages, and the NFT translation, which is based on English. I do maintain that translating the Fijian Bible from English is problematic because it removes the meaning and idiom one step from the original languages.<br />I think Ah Koy would have gained greater credibility if he had used translators with a good knowledge of Hebrew and Greek.<br />In response to the issue about "kalougata", we must remember that God in the Fijian Bible is "Kalou" and everyone accepts that. "Kalou" was taken from the pre-Christian (pagan) era so if we follow the argument of the NFT supporters, perhaps "Kalou" itself should be changed. Once you do that, where do you stop? As for the translation of 'blessing', to use the word "kalougata" is not disprespectful to God. All words in the Bible are sacred. Moses uplifted the snake as a spiritual image.<br />Idiom is very important in all languages, no less in Fijian. One has to go back to the very beginning of translation of the Fijian Bible and realize that William Cross in 1839, shortly after reaching Rewa, used the word "kalougata" for blessing. He would have only done so after consultation with his Fijian converts. And remember too that Cross came from a very strong Wesleyan evangelical tradition. He would not have used a word with heavily 'pagan' associations. The early Wesleyan missionaries were very critical of pagan ceremonies and any customs with strong pagan inferences. Cross must have immediately recognized the spiritual power of the word "kalougata" and accepted the word through his evangelical filter. His choice of that word was affirmed by John Hunt and Noa (his Fijian linguistic assistant), by James Calvert(who changed a lot of words in the Hunt translation), by David Hazlewood, by Frederick Langham and by the Fijian talatalas who did the last NT revision in the 1970s. I do wonder how Fijians feel about the replacement word for 'kalougata' used in the NFT. It is 'kalouvinaka' I would be interested to know how people respond to that word - literally and idiomatically.Andrew Thornleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-91071097710834243542010-05-18T18:27:09.458-07:002010-05-18T18:27:09.458-07:00What’s in a name?
30-Jan-2010
One thing is sure i...What’s in a name?<br />30-Jan-2010<br /><br />One thing is sure in the Judeo-Christian tradition: we are not at<br />liberty to call God by whatever name we choose. God has names which he<br />has revealed to us, names by which he is to be designated. None of<br />those names include ‘sharp God’ or ‘snake God’ which are the two<br />possible translations of ‘kalougata’ - the Fijian name for God in<br />extant translations of the Fijian Bible.<br /><br />Sir James Ah Koy has forcefully argued that kalougata means ‘snake<br />god’ and this is an insult to God and a curse to the Fijian people<br />since it is the enemy of God, the Serpent, the Devil, Satan, who is a<br />snake god, not God himself.<br /><br />Apologists have attempted to refute Sir James by asserting that<br />kalougata has actually come to mean ‘sharp god’ and therefore no curse<br />on the Fijian people applies.<br /><br />But we would assert that nowhere in the ancient Hebrew is God referred<br />to as a ‘sharp God’, nowhere does he call himself by that name.<br /><br />God is described as strong God, a powerful, God, a mighty God, but<br />never a sharp God. He may be qualified further as a merciful God, a<br />loving or compassionate God, even a jealous God, but never a sharp<br />God.<br /><br />Sharp, in the Bible, describes arrows, swords, mouths and knives, but<br />never God.<br /><br />Sharp is also Biblically descriptive of stones, razors, teeth, iron,<br />sickles, and even eyes, but never God.<br /><br />It may also refer to axes, tongues and anger, but never God.<br /><br />In other words, there is no Biblical warrant for calling God a ‘sharp<br />God’, neither do we have Biblical permission or rights to give him<br />that name.<br /><br />Indeed, we are expressly ordained by God to worship him by his true<br />names or else we violate the third of the big Ten Commandments which<br />forbids taking his name ‘in vain’. The fifth of the Ten Commandments<br />more positively orders us to ‘honour’ our father and mother.<br /><br />Sir James Ah Koy not only takes those commandments especially<br />seriously, he has put his mind and money behind his mouth by<br />commissioning the publication of an altered version of the Bible – the<br />first wholly Bauan translation and interpretation of the Bible – that<br />gives God, our heavenly Father his proper honour by referring to him<br />as he is to be referred to.<br /><br />Hence, there is no more kalougata or its derivatives in the Ah Koy<br />funded, New Fijian Bible which has come to completion and will soon be<br />published online for readers to judge and appreciate.<br /><br />There is no reference to God as sharp or snake. Rather he is given his<br />proper titles.<br /><br />We applaud this revisionism. It seeks to correct a historical gloss.<br /><br />It is an alteration for accuracy and respect.<br /><br />Sir James goes further and asserts that the effect of this linguistic<br />revision will be the lifting of a curse placed upon the Fijian people<br />by their inadvertent dereliction of duty in regard to calling God what<br />he has chosen to be called, and Fijian worshippers ignoring what God<br />orders us to call him.<br /><br />Sir James may well be right; at the very least he is entitled to this<br />point of view.<br /><br />Whether we agree with his corollary to the thesis or not, one thing is<br />for sure – we are no more entitled to call God what we like any more<br />than we are entitled to call each other what we like.<br /><br />Names are sacred self-disclosures. To unilaterally call others, and<br />God, whatever we choose is a form of swearing.<br /><br />In the ancient world, names were a blessing – we were blessed by being<br />given a name.<br /><br />To expect God’s blessing while we call him something other than what<br />he has called himself is hardly blessing God. In fact, it renders<br />hollow our petitions for his blessing.<br /><br />The New Fijian Bible is a Christian contrition whose time has come.<br /><br />- Editor, Fiji Daily PostAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-8632521305368112322010-05-16T19:05:46.196-07:002010-05-16T19:05:46.196-07:00I suppose although the quoted extract is not autho...I suppose although the quoted extract is not authoritative, because of its age being 100 years old, it would be indicative of the common uses of the term "kalougata" at those times, about 40 years on from the Rev. Hunt translation. <br /><br />This would be the same as our understanding Fijian language and idioms in use around the time of independence, 40 years ago from today. <br /><br />Interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-38864939399904462462010-05-16T18:47:31.174-07:002010-05-16T18:47:31.174-07:00It is good that there is much discussion on the &q...It is good that there is much discussion on the "Kalougata" issue. The simple fact is that there is much doubt as to the meaning, and therefore to continue to describe the name of our God and his works, using a potentially hazardous word, is foolish. It is merely academic pride that is holding one back from change. <br /><br />Note this extract from an old book from Mr.Meo's (former Principal of FIT) collection “Tukutuku kei Viti – O VITI MAKAWA” <br /><br />..."A nodrau qase vu na Tomanaivi, sa tolu na yacana era dau cavuta na neimami qase:-<br /><br />1. O Ratu-mai-Bula (koya sa bula mai Bulu). E ra sa qai dau cavuti koya tale kina, o Ratu-mai-Bula, era kaya, koya ka taukeni Bulu kei Vuravura talega.<br /><br />2. Kotoinaqara. Era kaya sa nona vale o Bula, o ya na loma ivuravura. Sa katuba kei Bulu i Vuravura, na gusu ni qara levu e ruku ni ulunivanua ni Kalou o Nakauvadra.<br /><br />3. Degei. Sa dua tani vei iratou na yaca oqo. Sa bale ki na ulu-ni-gata levu ka vakalomana (me luaraka mai na veika kece sa dau yacovi vuravura). O ya sa cavuti kina me iDegei se Degea, Degelaka (me tasova mai na lewe ni kato o ya). O Ratu-mai-Bula oqo, o koya ka kacabote mai Bulu, ki na Molikalagi e cake mai Nakauvadra, o ya mai na Vanua ni Yalo e ruku ivuravura e ra. Era qai cavuti koya kina nodrau kawa na Tomanaivi, me yacana o Ratu-mai-Bula (A Kalou Vure iBulu). Oqo ga neimami Kalou-vu-levu duadua na kai Viti. Sa gata ka ulu vakatamata, ni rogo mai na nona vosa i vuravura, sa mana i na ka kecega sa vosa kina; ni lutu na kuru, era kaya na Vu kei Viti; Sa vosa mai bulu o Ratu. E na dua tale na gauna, sa dau rairai mai na gusu ni qara, sa gata ka ulu vakatamata, ka yago va-gata, sa cavuti koya me Kalougata, na noqu Kalou. "<br /><br />- Chapter 3; Author – Mokunitulevu Narai, written circa. 1907 -1925<br /><br />If after reading this you do not get a chill down your spine when you hear the word "Kalougata", then you will never be convinced that the meaning of the word is very ambiguous at best, and therefore because of this element of doubt, best omitted from Holy Scripture. <br /><br />My understanding of the New Fijian Translation is that it was never meant to be a Greek or Aramaic translation, it was always to be a modern translation to allow Fijians (most of whom cannot speak Greek or Aramaic, but who do speak English) to read the bible in modern Fijian (Bauan). There is complete transparency, as the text is available for download free on the website and the hardcopy bibles will be given away free. <br /><br />The other point is, for all the criticism about a English>Fijian translation, it will be interesting to see just how much of the content of the other new translations being planned, supposedly being translated from Greek etc, is similar or identical to the NFT Bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-54826139506363054282010-02-05T13:19:27.196-08:002010-02-05T13:19:27.196-08:00Bula vinaka Volau,
There's a time and place f...Bula vinaka Volau,<br /><br />There's a time and place for formal translations and colloquial translations I think. The Good News Bible is more colloquial and good for parables and stories. Formal words like 'blessed' instead of 'happy' is best for poetic readings from the Bible. As for the word 'kalougata' it does seem to have a particular history, but as it's a word in general use today as meaning 'blessed' I don't worry about the 'gata' part of it. Words change meaning over time anyway. <br /><br />The Bible is made up of writings by people inspired by God and there surely are points of view even in the very first Hebrew and Greek versions. <br /><br />Yesterday we were at a funeral and the reading (in English) was the Beatitudes using the formal language and it was beautiful. I wrote up about the funeral of our friend in babasiga yesterday.<br />W.Peceli and Wendy's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-56325573589739241722010-02-04T15:42:52.998-08:002010-02-04T15:42:52.998-08:00Maybe a translation from the original Hebrew and G...Maybe a translation from the original Hebrew and Greek, rather than most of the contemporary versions (today's english). They do sound watered down.... When I read the Bible I'd like to still have the sense that it is a 'HOLY' book. The Fiji Times is good enough for 'today's english'...<br /><br />volauAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-83410393929808072752010-01-08T21:30:50.275-08:002010-01-08T21:30:50.275-08:00We must aprreciate what our I vola Tabu has contri...We must aprreciate what our I vola Tabu has contributed and we must not attempt to alter nor delete any word from it as the Revelation or Ai Vakatakila warns in Chp. 22:19. GATA isn't it? We must take heed and refrain ourselves from supporting such move.Fairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16365509342967913180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-70121604232160508602009-12-02T16:11:56.565-08:002009-12-02T16:11:56.565-08:00bula sia Josua and Lo,
thank you for your comments...bula sia Josua and Lo,<br />thank you for your comments. I think your Dad is the expert in these kind of interpretations but it's good to discuss Fijian words like this. I noticed they are tacking the word 'cibi' at present.<br />I hope life is good for your family, and even in trying times, there can still be love and humour.<br />w.Peceli and Wendy's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-31475724442221249582009-12-02T13:48:51.232-08:002009-12-02T13:48:51.232-08:00vinaka ..I've been following the debate and ha...vinaka ..I've been following the debate and had some lively discussions over lunch at Butt Street with Tony Ah Koy over the matter and also with dad in NZ. I've read a draft of the new translation and in my humble opinion it 'feels' a little watered down already. But its a healthy discussion nevertheless and really opens up questions of identity etc........keitou sa loloma yani mai Lami...Josua kei LoUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10383958314459320362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-49035660564157378382009-03-27T21:45:00.000-07:002009-03-27T21:45:00.000-07:00Wendy,I am glad that you have drawn attention to t...Wendy,<BR/>I am glad that you have drawn attention to this new translation initiative and, as you say, there are some worriesome aspects about it. At the same time,I believe that Fijian readers deserve a modern translation and Ah Koy is attempting, albeit with controversial revisions, to fill a need that has existed for a long time.<BR/>Fortunately the Fiji Bible Society is working on a new version of the Old Testament but I do not think we shall see it for a while.<BR/>Meanwhile the New Testament, revised by the Bible Society in the 1970s, did not make many changes from the inadequate Langham revision of 1902.<BR/>This general debate about the Fiji Bible needs to continue.Andrew Thornleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-85249401865676199672009-03-27T16:06:00.000-07:002009-03-27T16:06:00.000-07:00from w.I discovered that 'they' (Ah Koy and co.) h...from w.<BR/>I discovered that 'they' (Ah Koy and co.) have a website about their new translation. I was disconcerted to read that they are only looking at various English translations. Hey, what about the Hebrew and Greek? <BR/><BR/>And what is so paramount about the Bauan dialect eh? To me there's nothing wrong with flinging in some Lauan, Rewan, and what about Macuata dialect. 'a'a'a'a etc.!<BR/><BR/>Here is what they say about themselves:<BR/><BR/>The “New Fijian Translation” (NFT) has been translated on the basis of a number of English language versions of the Holy Scriptures, with no single English version being solely relied upon in a literal translation, in order to best capture the interpretation of the various English idioms, grammar and nuances of meaning in the Biblical text, into their Fijian equivalents. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>The project team was assembled, commissioned and solely funded by the Ah Koy Christian Trust, and commenced work in July 2007. The translation into the Fijian language was carried out by Pastor Peni Seru and Pastor Samisoni Seru, the two Bauan pastors commissioned to complete this work.<BR/><BR/>Improvements made in the “New Fijian Translation Bible” (NFT) include:<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>* Exclusion the word “Kalougata” and other mistranslations from English to Fijian of the original scriptures<BR/><BR/>* 100% consistent usage of the Bauan dialect of the Fijian language, replacing the mixture of Tongan, Bauan, Lauan and other Fijian dialects used in the current 1864 translation of the Bible into Fijian <BR/><BR/>* Translation of the scriptures into contemporary Fijian language in order to facilitate easier reading and understanding, utilising newly available reference material including the new ‘Fijian Dictionary’Peceli and Wendy's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-84323627790751137072009-03-24T18:38:00.000-07:002009-03-24T18:38:00.000-07:00I am amazed that many of the words/themes/cultural...I am amazed that many of the words/themes/cultural references can actually be translated into the Fijian language. Also I am not a Biblical scholar but I value some parts of the Bible more than others and don't see the point in some of the Old Testament sections. Really, some bits need a good editor! One time I was on Bible reading roster in the local Uniting Church and before I launched out on a section from one of Paul's letters, I said, 'Paul does need a good editor.' Later the minister looked up at the ceiling waiting for it to fall in! I think he agreed with me though.<BR/>w.Peceli and Wendy's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-47146155192436444282009-03-23T22:49:00.000-07:002009-03-23T22:49:00.000-07:00Thanks again Peceli and Wendy for your support of ...Thanks again Peceli and Wendy for your support of the Hunt New Testament project. It is true that this first scripture translation of 1847 was in the kai Bau dialect as you say. But there are some interesting sidelights to this. Firstly, for the early gospels, Hunt was influenced by the translations done by David Cargill and these were in the Lakeban dialect, so there are quite a few Lakeban words in the synoptic Gospels.<BR/>When we look at the Gospel of John, this translation was initially done by Rev. Thomas Jaggar, the missionary printer who resided at Rewa. This was the only book in the New Testament that Hunt basically accepted from another missionary, although he did the final revision. The result is that the book of John has quite a few Rewan words in it.<BR/>For the more pure Bauan, we have to wait until the later books of the New Testament, in particular the writings of St Paul.<BR/>When we come to a book like Hebrews for example, Hunt's favourite book in the New Testament, then we can look forward to seeing some beautiful idiomatic translation in the Bauan dialect.<BR/>A lot of this idiomatic Fijian was removed in later revisions of the New Testament, first by Rev James Calvert - who preferred a more literal style of translation - and then by Rev Dr Langham who did the 1901 Revision, which is basically the Bible you have today. The revision of the New Testament, done by the Bible Society in the 1970s made very few changes to Langham's version.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-65549778275061738082009-03-23T13:42:00.000-07:002009-03-23T13:42:00.000-07:00Sounds like an excellent project. We have the book...Sounds like an excellent project. We have the book of the gospels of Matthew, Mark that you wrote with Sevati and Tauga. I was there at the launch in Suva. Thank you. John Hunt's translation is the kai Bau translation and seems very good.<BR/>PeceliPeceli and Wendy's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-27083771400973361662009-03-22T22:01:00.000-07:002009-03-22T22:01:00.000-07:00Peceli, just for your interest, I note that you qu...Peceli, just for your interest, I note that you quoted from John3:14, regarded the uplifted serpent.<BR/><BR/>In the 1847 translation John3:14 is translated thus:<BR/>"Me vaka sa laveta cake na gata ko Mosese mai na veikau, e dodonu me laveti cake talega vakakina na Luve ni tamata"<BR/><BR/>Any comments on the difference? I would be interested.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-46480753313931255912009-03-22T19:57:00.000-07:002009-03-22T19:57:00.000-07:00Thankyou for your support on the matter of Kalouga...Thankyou for your support on the matter of Kalougata.<BR/>You may be aware theat James Ah Koy has sponsored an entirely new Bible translation with Kalougata deleted. <BR/>I don't necessarily mind a new translation - indeed I believe that the Fijian Bible requires a new and modern translation. However this one has an ideological agenda above a linguistic one and that carries great risk.<BR/>In addition, the translation is from English to Fijian, when really it should be from the original languages - Hebrew and Greek - to Fijian.<BR/>I am currently engaged on a project to republish the John Hunt 1847 New Testament, in time for the bi-centennial of his birth in 2012.<BR/>Hunt used many Fijian informants with a good knowledge of the Fijian language. They would have endorsed his choice of Kalougata, which had earlier been used by both David Cargill and William Cross.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21733836.post-3199557737683674532009-03-22T15:51:00.000-07:002009-03-22T15:51:00.000-07:00When I read the article by Ah Koy I decided it was...When I read the article by Ah Koy I decided it was unprintable here on our blog, as it was so filled with spite and generalisations and lacking in generosity. He believes the word kalougata is really a curse and that is quite stupid. A word is a word is a word and often has many meanings. Thornley writes with common sense and clarity. I take 'kalougata' to be a word of good-will and kindness, something like 'sau[ and 'mana'.<BR/>Okay?<BR/>w.Peceli and Wendy's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165668047817341837noreply@blogger.com